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Re: Mysterious gdb behavior.


On 29 Jul 2002 at 22:45, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc wrote:

> >Certainly, you've jumped right in!  I can see you've been quite prolific 
> >on the email list recently.

I'm not going to swamp it, if that's what's got you worried. I got 
Cygwin a while back and accumulated a number of questions about it 
that the FAQ didn't answer over the time since. I spent a while 
trying to get a question (the cron problem) posted via the gmane 
server, but something isn't working there and I couldn't even get 
hold of the administrator; I eventually gave up on gmane and 
subscribed to the list. (For high volume stuff I prefer to use a 
newsgroup if possible.) By then I'd accumulated many questions to 
post. Hence the first "rash" of postings. One question, the gdb one, 
unfortunately started a debate in which I wound up having to defend 
myself on a few points, which has necessitated that I post a lot of 
replies. This has caused the second "rash". To cut down on list 
traffic I decided to check mail less often, so the debate would be 
spread more thinly over time. It doesn't seem to have worked -- I 
just have proportionally more to respond to each time I do check mail 
for some reason.

But the debate is running out of steam (crosses fingers) and the 
initial batch of accumulated questions have all been asked. I will 
probably be just lurking within a week, with the odd question to ask 
every month or two, assuming nothing extraordinary happens.

> >I am, however, concerned that you're not going to get much in the way of
> >responses from knowledgeable folk on this list if you don't try to
> >work with those who respond to your posts.

Frankly, some of them have expectations that are way out of line. I'm 
not going to research every last thing to death when I'm looking for 
a quick fix to a specific problem and anyone who isn't willing to 
offer a quick fix needn't even respond to postings that ask for one.

>I can see that some might see your responses as inflammatory.

They're frustrated responses. Frustrated that someone keeps expecting 
me to solve it myself -- I wouldn't be posting to the list if I 
hadn't already exhausted my resources and given up trying to solve it 
myself; frustrated that someone who wants me to solve it myself 
wastes bandwidth to tell me their expectations when it doesn't 
contribute usefully; and frustrated that someone has posted yet 
another message that is hostile in tone and forces me to respond in 
my own defense, which in turn leads to a growing perception that I'm 
clogging the list with traffic -- as if I had a choice. I would like 
to just ignore two or three of the posters, but I can't given that 
they periodically post something that suggests fault on my part and 
that consequently requires a public correction.

> >Still, it's important to recognize that the goal of this list is
> >to exchange information.

Yes, and some of my "rants" have been trying to tell people that in 
fact. I ask for information, I get told why it's wrong to ask. I ask 
for information, I get different information. I ask for information, 
I get insults. Sheesh.

> >A certain healthy dose of tolerance is sometimes required to keep
> >a reasonable signal to noise ratio.

I am normally very tolerant, but my patience for snarky and unhelpful 
replies of any kind to serious and straightforward questions is short 
and has been exhausted lately. The snarky replies themselves betray 
intolerance on the part of others. I find myself wondering why this 
message seems directed at me, rather than at them. I can only guess 
that it's a "the newbie is always guilty" attitude, which would be 
unfortunate...

> >Don't forget, this is a list of volunteers.  Volunteers aren't as motivated
> >to spend their "free" time trying to help folks that don't work with them.
> >I only mention that because I can see how many of your recent posts (including
> >this one) might be perceived by maintainers (and others) as divisive.  I'd
> >hate to see posts of yours on good issues go ignored because of this.  Since
> >you may be new to the list, I thought I'd point out how you might best get
> >information you need.

I'd hoped it was as simple as asking. Unfortunately, it seems it 
isn't. Apparently there's some kind of god-damned politics to it, and 
certain egos have to be stroked or something before any information 
will be divulged. I don't have the time or inclination to involve 
myself in any kind of local politics -- I just want to get 
straightforward answers to straightforward questions. I hope that is 
not too much to ask...

> >I hope you find Cygwin useful and I look forward to your future contributions
> >to it's continued success.

I have found it useful, regardless of the appearance here. I suppose 
it looks like I've found it to be full of bugs and quirks -- it is, 
but so is any large system, and cygwin has less than other smaller 
ones I've seen. :) Postings here asking for help invariably come from 
people encountering problems, 
though, so you'll hear about problems more often than you will about 
things working perfectly -- nobody remarks upon the latter, any more 
than they comment on the green lights they encounter on the road even 
as they grumble about the red ones.


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