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Re: Moving cygwin discussions to Usenet? (e.g., alt.os.cygwin)


On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 02:59:12AM +0000, Soren A wrote:
> raphael <raphael@oninet.pt> wrote around 01 Oct 2002
> 20021001143546.GA276@raphael.oninet.pt:">news:20021001143546.GA276@raphael.oninet.pt: 
> 
> > Is just arogance nothing more. At least it shows a complete
> > unawareness of reality. You will never ever change a MS-Word user into
> > a VIM or EMAC user. And why would you?
> 
> I have to say that I really disagree with this. The specific example
> given especially. I was once an "MS Word user" and now I use (G)VIM
> (even to compose email). There is simply no comparison (on any level)
> between the two.

The latter being my point.

> GVIM is the motherload of programmer-friendliness and
> insanely clever extentions and capabilities and user comfort; MS Word is
> designed for something completely different and does that in a way that
> many people feel embodies haphazard development, obscene program bloat
> and gross security openings.

Thats not what the users think that use it what is it used for. Large
editorial works, company letters, office tasks. Please note that I'm
not denying the Bloating and Hazards, then again it seems to come with
the teritory, qua example we can see that XFREE isn't getting more stable
and that the several OS's implementing it in production environments
are more and more experiencing Windows like problems.

> Discussing the merits of either program here is probably OT, of course.
> My point is that my *own personal experience* since starting to use
> Cygwin years ago (in the days of b20) is that I have been converted,
> step by step, from a Windows orientation to a *nix orientation. I do not
> agree that Cygwin is a blend of the two or should be seen as such (if
> anything is close to a blend it would be MinGW, a topic that is ALSO
> _OT_ for this List). Cygwin is an _overlay_, not a blend.

Blend, Overlay, words. Fact is it's neither *nix nor windows. I for one
do not have the luxury to be able to switch completely, otherwise
Suse would be running here, I'm still stuck with lot of very expensive
software not available for *.nix. 
 
> So when I read somebody saying "such and such is arrogance" but I know
> that my own actual experience confirms the plausibility and insight of
> the thing which is being called arrogant and erronious, I feel I should
> speak up.

I don't think you have to, in your case it might have worked because
you obviously can do your work in a *nix environment. A great deal 
of us just can't.
 
> Experience (actual proof, empirical results) beats theory any day of the
> week. IMHO. 

I agree, thats why I try suse,redhat,freebsd and a few others at least
once a year when I have some time to kill. But as alway's it starts
with hardware support (currently the worst thing I think is USB) and
once that's beaten the lack of software kicks in. And after that my
experience (emperical proven) leaves me with the desire for a hybrid,
with the user friendlyness of windows and the security and stability
of *nix. But as long *nix users and window users do not get together
on this, respecting eachother, the best of both worlds will never 
happen. 

Kind regards

Raphael
-- 
"Spare no expense to save money on this one."
		-- Samuel Goldwyn

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