RE: My apologies

["Brandon J. Van Every" <vanevery at indiegamedesign dot com>]

From: Eric McDonald [mailto:mcdonald@phy.cmich.edu]
>
> Hopefully this won't turn back into a flamewar. If it does, you'll
> be seeing a stone wall again (at least from me).

For someone who doesn't want a flamewar, you sure say a lot of pointed
things.

> > I'm not worried about whether or not I take action.  I do.  I have a
> > working VS 2003 build system that proves I take action.
>
> Well, if you want to contribute to the Xconq project and show a
> bit of goodwill, you could show us your project to see if it is
> something worth adding....

You are confusing me here.  If you are saying you don't believe I've
done what I said, I find that totally bizzare.  If there is even debate
about whether a VS 2003 build system is worthwhile, we have a bigger
clash of developer culture than I imagined.  Maybe there is a 3rd
possibility that you're worried I didn't set it up in a good style.  I
did... but I suppose you wouldn't know that.  Anyways, the point is moot
because as far as I can tell, you don't have any Windows developers.
I'd be Da Man.

The build system works but is not ready for checkin quite yet.  I had to
change 2 #ifdefs and I need to decide what the "proper" way to change
those is.  At the time, I went for the expedient way.

> > And, it wasn't
> > "a few minutes" of work as Hans claimed.  It has taken a
> > week, that's
> > the more realistic scope of the project for someone who
> > isn't intimately familiar with the Xconq code.
>
> Not really.
> [...] I initially tried the one that came with my Cygwin. [...]

I have made a *VS 2003* build.  You realize that this is a MS Solution +
Projects system, not a Cygwin makefile, yes?  There is no such thing as
simply importing a makefile and hey presto.  Everything has to be done
manually.

> Furthermore, I did not
> bitch out everyone on the list because it didn't automagically
> just build.

You have been given an apology.  Accepting an apology means moving on.

> > weeks, when / if I incorporate a Windows packaging system.
> > I haven't looked at that yet.
>
> By Windows packaging system, you mean what?

Something that automagically builds a Windows Xconq binary package for
an end user.

> Some of your questions looked very much like troll bait, given
> your past outbursts on this list.

I have given you clarification of my intents at several junctures.

> Many of which are still quite relevant and useful. Again, use the
> list search engine and the 'Thread Next' links.
>
> > and haphazardly placed
>
> If you are referring to the fact that the INSTALL-win.txt mentions
> the SDL interface and its status, then you should know that I did
> not intend that to be the _only_ place that one could find such
> information. Again, RTFLA. I merely mentioned it there to aid a
> new developer in deciding what to build.

As I said before, I both LFTFM and STFLA to a degree warranted.  I am
not going to spend an hour RTFLA when someone could easily answer my
question in 2 minutes.  They weren't difficult questions, they were "Is
the SDL client supposed to be incomplete?" and "Who is your SDL guy?"

> >I believe in asking
> > easy questions that people can promptly answer.
>
> You should not necessarily expect a prompt answer. We have other
> things to do, like working at our jobs, for example. Also, I think
> it is rather egocentric and selfish to basically tell people that
> they are your personal encyclopediae,

That's quite a tar brush you're carrying there.  Incidentally, bigger
open source projects often use IRC for lightweight communication.

> especially when you can get
> a more comprehensive view by just sitting down and digesting the
> information available, and doing this rather gratifying thing
> known as "problem solving".

I think at this point, you and others either agree or disagree about
what a Complete Waste Of Time is and what isn't.  My willingness to
contribute to Xconq is directly predicated upon avoiding Complete Wastes
Of Time.  If I find that silence and/or sluggishness of response is
often holding up the works when it really shouldn't, then I will find
something else to do.

> FYI, I was a commercial Windows developer for a few years, and I
> worked with guys who actually liked Microsoft.

At what point did I say I like Microsoft?  I simply think Windows is a
more relevant game platform than Linux or Mac, because of Microsoft's
monopoly power being what it is.  So does the non-console game industry.
I do think there's a teeny tiny list of things Microsoft is doing better
than the other guys: (1) the .NET Intermediate Language layer, (2)
DirectX vertex and pixel shaders (3) ease of use compared to Linux, if
not Mac.

> Even there, the
> culture you are pushing did not exist. People were generally
> expected to solve their own problems.

An anecdote of one company.


Cheers,                         www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every               Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.