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Re: No postnews or other Usenet news utilities?


Bruce Wehr wrote:
Matthew wrote:
Bruce Wehr wrote:
I was introduced to Usenet on or about 1985.
See how many times I've been flamed.
Ok, I accept your challenge. This post, and the previous one, are at fault. I don't know what reputation you have on USENET, and I don't have time to kill "finding out", but you've already grossly violated netiquette for *this* list not once, but twice.

Twice? Interesting ...

Yup, but welcome to the club of TITTTL violators. I think we've come to consensus on the first one.


First off, go read <http://cygwin.com/lists.html> (which you should have read before posting *anything*)

Hmmm ... I did so, and find your assumption otherwise very presumptuous. I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to share with the group that which I said to you in a private email.

Nope, I was tempted to ask to FW my reply to it here. :-)


And #1 wasn't an OT, it was, as GHVS pointed out the backstory (which is now beating a dead horse, as per the above comment). The original post was on-topic.

<- begin email quote ->

I did read that page, front to back, top to bottom and left to right before
I posted.  I searched the list archives, feeling *sure* that this question
*had* to have been addressed already.  I was truly surprised that, in all
these years, nobody seemed to raise the question.

I used to be an HP-UX admin, so I *know* the headaches associated with
administering mailing lists and newsgroups. I *know* how tiresome
inappropriate, off-topic and repeat questions can be, and how often an
"RTFM!" reply is the best I could squeak out.  I thought I had done my due
diligence, chose the right mailing list and shown the proper respect before
posting.  No, I am not a spammer.  Would a spammer bother to take the time
to do all I have done?  I think my only violation [ed: in my original post]
was being too long winded (as you pointed out), but that's just me (and I
even apologized for that at the end of my original post).

<- end email quote ->

<http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#TITTL>
which describes what you should have done with this latest post.

Okay, as a new visitor to the Cygwin web site and mailing lists, I never saw a reference to this. This is an appropriate, informative page for newbies. Perhaps a more prominent pointer on the web site is called for?

See above; "welcome to the club". ;-)


I just picked up the gauntlet you dropped; sorry if I was a little rough with it.

To summarize: we didn't need three pages of hysterics and back-story to come with your question.

Three pages of back-story was probably inappropriate, I will give you that.

Dead horse, dead horse. ;-)


I think I'll stop replying to these as we are in violent agreement. :-)

I did apologize for that.  As for hysterics, I didn't see any in my original
post; those all came later.

"<BIG SIGH>", etc. A little goes a long way.


There, see? That was *much* easier and more pleasant to read,

Agreed, and point taken. Apologies to all.

Happily accepted (on my end, at least, can't speak for anyone else).


was not hysterical, and summarized both your problem (which, incidentally, has nothing at all to do with Cygwin) and the

Nothing at all to do with Cygwin? It *is* a Cygwin question!

No, your *problem* is that you are trying to post a message to a large list of newsgroups. If this has anything to do with Cygwin, perhaps you can enlighten me.


However, because you know that Cygwin is a very good POSIX environment on Windows, and that POSIX is very script-friendly, you are looking for a Cygwin *solution* to your problem. Thus, you are 100% correct that your question is a Cygwin question, but refer again to <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal>... I'm not saying that your post was out of line, just that you should keep an open mind and realize that the best *solution* might not involve Cygwin.

As for my second post (which indeed *did* contain hysterics!), if that was
inappropriate for the main Cygwin list, all I can say is: <pouting and
pointing my finger at Dave> "He started it!" :)

Yes, he did (and I see I do not hold that opinion alone), and this is why TITTTL is so often used. :-)


This is probably exasperated by the old hats simultaneously tending to not do it under the belief that the new folks won't realize they did (which is why I CC'd you my reply), and expecting the new (i.e. inexperienced) folks to know to do it (even though that contradicts the first assumption). IOW, it's either lose-lose or relies on the new folks to do their homework (but specifically, to find the descriptions of the cygwin-talk ML and "TITTTL"). And most people don't. My own belief, based on the other newbies I've seen drop in, is that you've done better than average.

IANAUU (I am not a USENET user), but I would think the purpose of regional groups is to post about items that *are* specific to a region. If your item is *not* specific to a region, then IMO you should restrict yourself to posting in non-regional forums.

Well, that's one interpretation. Things like cars and houses and such. If you live in Florida, you don't want to be bothered with ads for used cars for sale in California. Completely understood.

Another interpretation says, the item I'm selling *is* available to
Floridians (even though I don't live there), because I ship there.
Floridians deserve to know that this is available.  (It is a rather rare
item.)

There will be many folks who use the first interpretation; others who use
the second.  If you side with the first, then the best we can do is agree to
disagree.

WFM.


I'll concede that *.forsale sounds like a bunch of groups whose purpose of existence is to be the target of directed spam.

To me, "spam" is like a shotgun. Indiscriminate blasting that not only covers the intended target, but wholly inappropriate targets too.

Hmm, by that definition I would argue that this mailing list constitutes "spam". :-) I'm not particularly interested in "Using gutenprint IJS drivers with ghostscript.", but that message was sitting in Thunderbird along with the rest of the traffic.


I guess my initial reaction is to consider all blatant advertising "spam". I will certainly concede that in this instance it would appear to be solicited, so I guess by a more typical definition that is "not spam". See what you're doing, you're using reason and logic to make me question my own beliefs; stop that! ;-)

As for your impression of Dave Korn, you might want to re-read your OP, read <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html> and then ask yourself (especially considering that many people consider such excessive cross-posting to be spam) if you're still surprised by Dave's response.

As I told you in private email, Matthew, I consider your response much more civil and helpful to me than the keyboard-lashing I got from Dave. Yes, I may have broken ML etiquette with my original post (though it was not for lack of effort, and I still think my only crime was being too long winded), but there are more considerate and polite ways of letting me know I did so (such as yours).

I'm glad you feel that way... I think. :-) I know I'm being a bit knee-jerk as well, and I'm trying, though not very consistently, to not be. ;-)


As for my second post, my only regret was calling Dave an uncivil name.  I
should never have stooped that low.  Dave, you may read this list, but I'm
CCing you too (just in case), because I would like to apologize for that.

Anyway, I just ran out of wind.

I think I just ran out of smileys. :-)


--
Matthew
...Ruthlessly beating Windows with a hammer until it looks like POSIX.


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