Lousy setup program defeats users with disabilites.

[Robert Collins]

Just to add a couple of points beyond Chuck's email.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cygwin-owner@cygwin.com 
> [mailto:cygwin-owner@cygwin.com] On Behalf Of Garrett Serack
> Sent: Wednesday, 19 June 2002 12:34 AM
>
> I'm writing to plead with the developer of the setup program 
> for Cygwin.
> 
> Imagine for a minute that you are somewhat disabled, and can't move a 
> mouse all to well.  Typing is a chore, but managable, and one 
> tends to 
> stick with console utilities. (like, cygwin.)

Right. I really really want to have a console version of setup for my
own use. SO I understand your needs there. Even a kb controllable
version would be better.
 
> Now, Imagine that someone has put an installer in the way to these 
> tools. The installer not only *requires* the use of a mouse, but also 
> *requires* about a thousand clicks in order to install all of 
> the tools. 
> There is no option to use the keyboard, nor is there an *install all* 
> option (something that devleopers of real windows 
> applications figured 
> out about a decade ago)

Chris has documented how to manually install cygwin multiple times here
in this list. There is nothing prventing you doing that. 
 
> I just recently downloaded the most recent version of this 
> discriminating peice of software, and noticed that now, the 
> text doesn't 
> even fit in the window, again *requiring* more use of a 
> mouse, and you 
> can't even resize the window.

Yes. Why isn't the window bigger? Because 640x480 screens are small. Why
isn't it resizable? Because we're doing this on a volunteer basis, and
no one has gotten to it.

 
> I find the use of this setup program deplorable. Not only 
> does it cleary 
> disciminate against users with disabilities, it tends to 
> speak volumes 
> about the state of Open source software.

This sentence is where I lose the sympathy I was building up about your
situation (I had even managed to ignore the title). Discrimination
usually involves a deliberate effort, or at least a willingness to turn
a blind eye. I don't believe that I've displayed either of these things.
In terms of software quality, we've converted setup from a C program
(pretending to be C++) to a mostly C++ architecture. Primitive console
capabilities now exist in the development source. Likewise the chooser
box which is the mouse requiring screen is slowly moving to the point
where it can be implemented using the standard windows model, so that
windows will be able to understand where the cursor is and allow
scrolling around inside. Heck, we're not even screen reader compatible
at the moment. All of that has taken significant effort, and some nasty
bugs raised that the cygwin user community *very* patiently waited
through.

Here is the situation now:
I will accept usability patches.
I will accept feature requests.
I will - at my own pace - be adding more scripting and usability
features. 

If any of that is less than satisfactory, then tough. You are owed
nothing by sheer virtue of using cygwin, you have just received a huge
gift, and if you are not happy... then you can change the gift. There's 

... skip more non-constructive critique ...

> For instance, clicking on the "All" category will provide you 
> with the 
> opportunity to install every Cygwin package.

So the FAQ is out of date with the homepage. This suggests that the FAQ
maintainer needs help. 
 
> Now, I realize that this has been quite a rant.  I work with 
> people who 
> have limited abilities with their hands, but can often be quite 
> brilliant otherwise.  I encourage them to work problems out for 
> themselves, and I hate to see these types of things causing 
> them to give 
> up on Open source tools due to the hurdles involved.

I'm glad you realise it was a rant. I little more empathy and you'll
realise the reaction of folk who are - working hard (given the resource
constraints), aware of the issue and caring about it - when confronted
with your rant. 

<soapbox> 
Angry commentary on free (in whatever way) things is an uneffective way
to get what you want. If you paid $50 dollars for something, then you
have the right to be angry over $50 of fraud/incomplete service etc etc.

When you paid $0 you have the right to be angry over $0 of incomplete
service. Well, you get what you pay for.

Open source works this way:
When someone wants it better, it gets better for all.
When an improvement is made, the gap to the next improvement is reduced,
thus reducing the investment required to make it better next time.

It does not work this way:
When someone is unhappy it gets fixed.

</soapbox>

Rob


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